Ultimate?

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Ultimate?
Topic Started: Jul 20 2008, 02:55 PM (157 Views)
rc.cope	Jul 20 2008, 02:55 PM Post #1
Forum HIstorian Posts: 3,222 Group: Senior Member Member #2 Joined: June 20, 2005	I just watched a disturbing piece on ESPN about Ultimate Fighting...featuring children as young as six years of age. When I was a lad, my dad bought me two pairs of boxing gloves, and they were only used with his strict supervision. It enabled me and my friends the opportunity to put on the gloves and box. It also served as a morale booster and a very good physical fitness tool. My dad had a rule, if you got tagged, you sat down. I think the worst injury involved a bruise or a bump. My dad was a former Golden Gloves boxer, and saw a few violent matches...one which knocked him into the next week. But even my dad would've been repulsed by what I saw this morning. The snippet showed little kids pummeling each other to no end. Many of the kids were screaming for it to stop, others showed great pride on the pain they were inflicting. I certainly hope that more people watched what I witnessed. I see no reason for it to continue. Your comments?
	I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.


Scipio	Jul 20 2008, 06:28 PM Post #2
Beth Evangelist Posts: 592 Group: Senior Member Member #4 Joined: June 21, 2005	It's all part of the old "Roman Empire syndrome". Instead of slaves and prisoners fighting lions, we have ultimate fighting and Grand Theft Auto. We're going down, just like Rome did.



rc.cope	Jul 20 2008, 07:43 PM Post #3
Forum HIstorian Posts: 3,222 Group: Senior Member Member #2 Joined: June 20, 2005	As Mr T once said; "Pity the fool."
	I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.


Scipio	Jul 20 2008, 10:25 PM Post #4
Beth Evangelist Posts: 592 Group: Senior Member Member #4 Joined: June 21, 2005	Say what now?



rc.cope	Jul 20 2008, 10:40 PM Post #5
Forum HIstorian Posts: 3,222 Group: Senior Member Member #2 Joined: June 20, 2005	One of the big reasons for the downfall of Rome was the fact that they drank their wine from lead goblets...sending the higher ups into cases of lead poisoning. That, and the fact that they were immoral cross breds. Nice bunch of people...those Romans.
	I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.


Scipio	Jul 20 2008, 11:23 PM Post #6
Beth Evangelist Posts: 592 Group: Senior Member Member #4 Joined: June 21, 2005	So where we're at in this discussion is that I've noticed a behavioral similarity between us and the ancient Romans which you dismiss as not really similar. You've pointed out one or two proximate causes for the Roman downfall...can we identify the causes for the American one? I nominate lead poisoning again, as the news media often point out how much lead is in our old houses, playscape ground materials, imported toys, and our fish. Not to mention all the lead from the bullets flying around some neighborhoods. (yours excepted) And while the Romans had cross-breeding to dull the intellect of the society, we have mass-marketing, convenience culture, reality tv, and at least three generations of chemical engineering miracles polluting our air, water, land and our nervous systems. I think the fact that this ultimate fighting has entered the mainstream of our culture is a sign that the rot is close to the skin, and full collapse may be right around the corner. (I'm just rambling, throwing out words to see the effect they might have, I am not sure I really believe what I'm saying) EDIT: I almost forgot a more important factor, the Bush war on democracy. Ever since we got into this Iraq thing I've noticed more war movies, more war video games, etc. The ultimate fighting phenomenon fits right into a general war whoop put on by Shrubco and the Cheney people to get us more in line with the Bush doctrine. Edited by Scipio, Jul 20 2008, 11:26 PM.



Ali	Jul 21 2008, 01:04 AM Post #7
Beth-anorak Posts: 2,740 Group: Senior Member Member #130 Joined: April 2, 2006	I don't know about lead, but the air is definitely full of them old Romans! I spent a considerable part of yesterday talking about the Romans (with a friend of mine who, like me, had some remarkable experiences of a psychic nature when in Rome, and who has been told that he is a reincarnation of a Roman emperor!) only to get home to an hour long programme on the telly about the Emperor Hadrian, inspired by a brand new exhibition at the British Museum devoted to him. Today was largely Roman-free (apart from the two exceptional Roman coins that I bought this evening!) Edited by Ali, Jul 21 2008, 01:08 AM.
	Now you're sittin' on a Paris train, laughing at your own jokes again


rc.cope	Jul 21 2008, 01:08 PM Post #8
Forum HIstorian Posts: 3,222 Group: Senior Member Member #2 Joined: June 20, 2005	Those Roman coins are neat. I think I still have one in an old box somewhere. Scipio, you stole my thunder with the bit about the war...I was already to start another thread about it. I just wanna get my man Sandad's input on it. He tells me that there is a silent protest every Friday PM over in St Paul, Minnesota. That's a bit far for me, but something I could really sink my teeth into. I'll email him and get him to give us a play by play. We've really got to stop this war. It is insane, and cutting to the core of our existence...Not to mention what it is doing to the economy. It wasn't war that did in the Romans...it was themselves.
	I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.


Ali	Jul 21 2008, 01:39 PM Post #9
Beth-anorak Posts: 2,740 Group: Senior Member Member #130 Joined: April 2, 2006	rc.cope Jul 21 2008, 01:08 PM We've really got to stop this war. It is insane, and cutting to the core of our existence...Not to mention what it is doing to the economy. It wasn't war that did in the Romans...it was themselves. Isn't that always the way? It's like blaming religion for all the world's ills, when it is the misuse and distortion of religion that is the problem ... in other words, it is bad people who are to blame. As for Iraq ... it was pretty obviously always the plan to establish a permanent military presence in Iraq in order to control the oil (and for strategic reasons). Which is precisely what will happen if McCain wins, despite the frequently expressed wish of the Iraqis for the US to leave and leave soon. That wily old bird Gore Vidal reckons that Obama 'won't be allowed to win', which is a pretty ominous prediction, but understandable when one thinks about the corruption and malpractices that 'allowed' Bush to 'win' twice running. Let us pray that Vidal is wrong, and that all good folk and true do whatever they can to ensure he is wrong. Edited by Ali, Jul 21 2008, 01:40 PM.
	Now you're sittin' on a Paris train, laughing at your own jokes again


rc.cope	Jul 21 2008, 07:36 PM Post #10
Forum HIstorian Posts: 3,222 Group: Senior Member Member #2 Joined: June 20, 2005	I think Gore Vidal is gonna be wrong here. There is a groundswell of people who are fed up with the republican way. They have greatly hurt the middle class in this country, and I think they will vote en masse. Still, there are a lot of folks who won't vote for a black man, and a whole lotta jerks who think their fucking guns are gonna be taken away.
	I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.


Walrus	Jul 21 2008, 07:43 PM Post #11
Beth-head Posts: 476 Group: Senior Member Member #32 Joined: July 14, 2005	That ultimate fighting thing IS really disturbing. I didn't know there were kids involved...it was disturbing enough watching adults do it. How the fuck do people find this appealing to watch? It frightens me. As for the downfall of America, if it happens, I'm pretty sure it will be able to be traced back to the Bush regime. Between the war, the economy, our massive debt that has increased exponentially since he came to power, failing education in a LOT of areas, etc etc. I mean, one president can't hit a magic button and fix all these things, but he's pretty much epically failed at all of them concurrently. If McCain wins, i'd seriously be scared about the future of America as a viable world power. If Obama wins, I think it will be a major step, but I worry he's going to be unable to undo everything Bush has done and lose 4 years later the way Jimmy Carter did.
	-Steve C. My Music // Journal // MySpace // This Strange Engine - My Music Blog


rc.cope	Jul 21 2008, 08:39 PM Post #12
Forum HIstorian Posts: 3,222 Group: Senior Member Member #2 Joined: June 20, 2005	Good post, Steve. Ultimate fighting is clearly designed to gravely injure another human being. Other contact sports are completely safe if played within the rules of the sport. As for Barack Obama, he would be a big step in the other direction. True, he cannot undo everything Bush has done, but curtailing the war and putting a clamp on the energy crisis are two things that really stand out in front. Yet another important issue is affordable health insurance for all. Many folks are just a hospital stay away from bancruptcy. Obama cannot do all these things himself, but by surrounding himself with the right people he can do good things. I say give him the chance.
	I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.


Walrus	Jul 22 2008, 08:55 AM Post #13
Beth-head Posts: 476 Group: Senior Member Member #32 Joined: July 14, 2005	Oh, Obama would be wonderful. Americans just have short attention spans (we're not that bright, in case the last two elections didn't alert everyone to that) and I fear that if he doesn't magically fix everything Bush screwed up in 4 years, the Republicans will use that as ammo against him when he runs for re-election. As for health insurance...I haven't had it in years. I'm on the "let's hope I don't ever get hit by a bus" plan. It's kind of scary, but not much I can do about it. My last job was too cheap to pay me enough where I could afford it, and then I got laid off in December and have spent 7 fucking months unsuccessfully looking for a new job. I know I'm not that old but I have a hard time imagining things being worse in this country than they are right now at any time since the Great Depression ended.
	-Steve C. My Music // Journal // MySpace // This Strange Engine - My Music Blog


rc.cope	Jul 22 2008, 01:54 PM Post #14
Forum HIstorian Posts: 3,222 Group: Senior Member Member #2 Joined: June 20, 2005	Believe me, i feel your pain...but consider someone like my wife. She had good insurance all her life until I had to retire...now nobody will insure her because of her age. Show me a person in their 50's who doesn't have some sort of medical issue. Now maybe you can understand our predicament. I am going to see our insurance agent today to see what he can do for us.
	I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.


TJ	Jul 22 2008, 05:28 PM Post #15
Beth-anorak Posts: 1,836 Group: Senior Member Member #8 Joined: June 22, 2005	Anyone notice that Barack Obama and Beth Orton share the same initials? Good omen?
	"What's his tits..."


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